I wanted to start by asking if it’s difficult to talk to people about this book in interviews when there's so much that you want to keep secret and not tell people who might not have read it yet?
Yeah, especially towards the latter half. I always refer to “this place on the island” and then say nothing more than that, even though I'm very, very tempted. But I think if I gave too much away, it would take away an element of surprise from that. Thankfully, the first half also does have a few surprises and enticing points, so it hasn't been too hard. But I've definitely had to keep myself in check at times. I’m always so interested to see how people react to it.
Thinking right back to the very start of this, what was the first idea you had that grew into what this book eventually is?
I had a tonne of tiny little ideas tinkering in my brain for a while. But actually, when I was in high school, I started a skincare account on Instagram because I had awful cystic acne. I somehow got a lot of people to follow me and was kind of a small influencer in my own way. That allowed me to get the behind-the-scenes look of everything, see all the personalities, and how people interact with each other, get into the group chats, attend events, and all of that. So I just knew there was a lot to say about the influencer dynamic and about how the whole system works. I just had to put it in a nice little plot that's enticing, but it's always been brewing in the back of my head.
And what I really like about it is that it's very easy when you tell stories about influencers to make them all really empty characters, and I don't think your book does that. How much of your own experience were you able to channel into making those influencer characters feel more real?
The main character Julie is the least influencer of the bunch, because she just stole the whole identity. But a lot of her thoughts are definitely thoughts I’ve had in order to write them, which is awful to say because she’s kind of a mean, awful person. So in that way, I did project a lot of my own thoughts into that character. And as for the other characters, I think I really wanted to acknowledge that all influencers are just real people at the end of the day, who might slowly become corrupted by the insane social media system.
But I did want to reflect a storyline I've seen personally in a lot of influencers. You watch them when they're really small and then you see them become big, move to LA or New York, and they kind of become this whole other person that you don't really recognise. They lose all sense of relatability in that way. So I did want to reflect that backstory and that character arc in my characters.
We've seen a lot of stories over the last few years about influencers. Were there any other stories you've seen that inspired you, whether it's other books, films, or TV shows?
I don't want to be too specific because I don't want to get into legal trouble, but there are influencer stories that definitely inspired the book – especially if you're really online, maybe you'll recognise some of them. But there were little sparks here and there, and in terms of like other forms of media, my book cops to Yellowface, and that's a huge inspiration. As well, I really love movies like The Menu and Midsommar and Triangle of Sadness – and also Yellowjackets [on TV]. It's like a whole concoction for this book. Just being chronically online and absorbing all of these stories really impacted the book.
Liann Zhang says the movie Midsommar inspired parts of Julie Chan is Dead
(Credit: A24)
What's your actual writing process like? For some writers, it has to be a quiet, beautiful space where nothing else is going on, and some writers are on the bus getting everything out. How does it work for you?
Personally, I find I can write anywhere as long as I get into the zone, but it's really really difficult to get into it. I find that I always end up procrastinating at the start, but after I type the first few sentences, it stops being agonising. The idea of starting it is very, very painful to me for some reason. I quit my job and now I’m a full-time writer, so I try to write regular office hours as best as I can, sat at my desk looking at my computer.
Does that mean I'm necessarily adding words to a manuscript? Not all the time. I get distracted looking myself up on Goodreads and my Amazon sales ranking, pretending to research something. I do really actively try to put myself in the seat, and eventually I'll trick my brain into starting the writing process. I find that once I get into it, I am carried into a flow state. But it's the start that's really the toughest for me.
It's interesting you made that point about checking Goodreads and things like that. How do you deal with the different types of feedback that you're getting from people who've been fortunate enough to read the book?
I think I will stop checking it eventually. But at this moment, it's such a novelty to Google myself and have real feedback. It’s this weird feeling of being perceived for the first time. These complete strangers have formed opinions on what I think and what I said. So there is a huge curiosity element to it, and I'm just the type of person where I won't be able to resist looking at that. I'm just so curious, and I'm so desperate in a way for approval and validation, but also there's a lot of excitement sometimes in the reviews and stuff which really does make my day.
But then you read one slightly bad one, and you immediately click out, and I'm like: why did I do that to myself? But there is an extension for authors that’s like a Goodreads author shield. It blocks all non-five-star reviews automatically, which has been really helpful. But some days I'll still go into incognito and look at the other ones. I want to know what people think, and I think I have decently thick skin. And there haven't been too many negative reviews that I'm hurt by, but I'm sure it'll come. It happens to every author. The more people read it, the more varying opinions there are. So I think I'm gonna have to slowly shed that habit soon.
(Credit: Bloomsbury Publishing)I think you see some of that in Julie in the book. I'm a writer who has been publishing stuff online for years and years and years as a journalist, and I read the comments, and I read what people say about me on social media, and I think the book is really good on understanding that impulse.
It's just human nature, I think, to want to know what people think of you – especially for influencers. Any writer that writes a book, they put a lot of themselves into it, but if you're an influencer especially – and you're not like putting on an entirely different persona – you want to know what people think. Do people like me? Will they keep following me? Do they hate me now? It can really get in your head. But it's also a part of the system and you can't ignore it because your whole job is about people platforming you.
One of the things I love about the book is the balance between comedy and darkness. How did you get that balance right?
I think it helps that Julie's a naturally witty character. She starts off very sardonic and cynical about the whole social media scheme. So it already has that element to it. Even when she gets tossed into some of the darker, more sketchy parts of the book, there’s this underlying theme of her core personality. It comes through. It definitely was difficult at some parts, I think – especially in the latter half of the novel when things get kind of weird. There are moments where I tried not to add too many funny elements because it would kind of take you out of that moment. But when she snaps back into it, the old personality comes back.
Most of it did come up while I was writing and how I thought a character like Julie would react to things, but sometimes I had to go back and re-edit and cut certain thoughts or add certain thoughts here and there. Sometimes, of course, in the revision process, I might not have thought of a funny line at the time, but I would while walking in the street and put it down in my notes app. Then I’d go back and sometimes force a place to say something funny.
Any writer is always going back and kind of revising their work and making changes. Were there any big changes in the book between what you initially planned for the story and what it ended up being?
Actually, not really. Through the revision process, they followed the same beats. The story always ended exactly the same as how it ended since the first draft. This book had such a concrete story that's very propulsive. We didn't have to fiddle around too much with the actual events. We added bits of scenes for character development and there are some scenes that highlight Julie's thought pattern and make her a more vulnerable person. But in terms of the storyline as a whole, it kind of remained intact, which I'm very surprised about. I can't say the same for my other books that I've written.
We've talked about inspirations in the film or TV world. While I was reading this, I found myself thinking this would make for a great film or a TV show. Is that something you'd like to happen? And have you thought about who could play Julie?
Of course, I would love to. I feel like that's every author's dream, in a way. Maybe I shouldn't say that because people don't [always] like the adaptations and sometimes they do really change things up. But of course I would love it, and if it did get adapted, the first person that comes to mind is Stephanie Hsu. But a part of it is just because she's kind of like the hottest Asian girl in her twenties or thirties in Hollywood right now. So that's who I'm clinging on to in my head for casting. Maybe there's a better actress out there, but she's an Oscar nom, so it'd be amazing. It would be an honour, to be honest.
Liann Zhang wants Stephanie Hsu to star in a Julie Chan is Dead movie
(Credit: A24)
It would be great. Let's start the campaign now. So to finish up, what's next for you. What's the next book after this?
We actually sold this book in a two-book deal. So I’ve actually handed in my first draft of my second book. It's gonna be a process to actually get it done, but I'm glad to have the next book ready. It's also a fun, very timely book.
It's about a true crime podcaster, and I feel like there's a lot of books coming out about that. But it does take a really interesting spin with it, because then she gets cancelled and she wants to reclaim her success by faking a murder. I did study criminology, so I was able to play with that and I actually pulled up some of my university notes to write this book. But it's funny, it's zany, and it's a little bit weird. It's less chaotic than this one, I will say, more grounded, but still equally fun, still odd in some places. Hopefully, just a good time.
Do you think you'll keep telling stories in this kind of internet culture space? Do you think that's where you feel comfortable?
It was interesting because I actually wrote another novel before the second one that I thought would be my second book. It's like a horror story, which is a modern retelling of a very famous Chinese ghost story. It's not very internet at all.
But me and my agent were going over my other ideas and she said maybe we should go for this true crime podcast one because the voice feels more similar to your debut. And at this point in your career, you want to build an audience. You want to build that audience loyalty, especially if people are very interested in this type of book. Take advantage of it while you have it.
So, at this current moment, I'm writing in the same space. I don't know about my next ones and I am interested in exploring new spaces. But at the same time, if there's a good idea that’s related to the digital space, how can I say no?
Julie Chan is Dead is available to buy in the UK now. Read our Julie Chan is Dead review to find out more about it.
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