What do you feel are the main barriers for working class people trying to get into the television industry either in front of the camera or behind it?
It makes me really sad to say that the barriers are still huge. The reports we've seen recently are still showing us that the amount of working class people in the industry is tiny in comparison to what it should be. The industry has fought really hard for some really important things recently, don't get me wrong, so the racial mix is so much better than it was – still not where it should be, but better. But somehow, the working class thing gets forgotten. It doesn't get shouted about enough. It's a real shame that it's a forgotten problem that's easily overlooked.
There are so many working class stories not being told by working class people, whether that be the faces on the screen or the people behind the camera, which makes them inauthentic stories. The working class viewer sniffs that out immediately. And it's so important that we do something to sort that out and make sure that those of us that have got through that ridiculous door hold that door open and do something. It's all very nice when I'm on set and you've let me through, thank you ever so much, but why am I the only person here like me?
In the time you've been in the industry and doing the work you do, have you seen a change either for better or for worse in terms of working class representation?
No, and yet I've seen those changes for other under-represented communities. Still not good enough, but I've seen fight for change for some of them. I've never even heard fight for change for the working class community and the working class voice, and it baffles me. Any industry surely wants to ensure that all voices are there. There's incredible working class talent, so the industry is doing itself no favours in not doing more about it.
At the Workshop, we are pretty unique in what we do. So we're a charity trying desperately to get young working class actors into the industry and we are battling to keep going, battling to keep our doors open, and find it really hard to attract any kind of funding. We have 41 years of complete and utter success that matches the top drama schools in the level of the actors we're putting out into the industry, phenomenal actors. And yet, 80% of my job is just trying to keep us going.
Television Workshop has provided opportunities for dozens of young people over the years
(Credit: Television Workshop)
I’ve found that with a few of the organisations I've spoken to for this series. You're spending so much time just trying to keep afloat that you're almost not doing the work that you set out to do.
Absolutely. When I took this role, I thought the main part of my job would be my acting teaching and coaching. That's what I love doing. That's what my real skill set is. What I found is that I get to teach less and less and I have to spend more and more of my time just going out there trying to get bursary places funded and trying to raise money. In the three years since I've taken over, we've had to move to much smaller premises just to make sure we could keep going. It's absolutely crazy because casting directors and agents are banging on the door all the time for the talent that we put out there.
We've touched on this already, but could you explain a little bit about how the work that you do at the workshop helps people from working class backgrounds?
Originally, when the Workshop started 41 years ago, I was one of the first members and it was completely free. It was completely funded by ITV. It was the Central Junior Television Workshop at the time. The idea was to get working class kids on the television, instead of just your stage school kids. We were all over the telly really quickly because people saw this incredible resource of young talent. In 2012, we'd lost all the funding and had to become a charity, so the only way we could keep going was to charge a fee. We make sure that the fee is ridiculously low. At the moment it's £45 a month, and it's that low because we want to make sure the door’s open to every single kind of kid.
We audition about 500-600 kids a year for about 20 places and we are not interested in whether you can pay the fees when we audition you. We audition you and offer you the place before we have any idea as to whether you can afford those fees or not, and it makes no difference to us whether you can or you can't. The kids that are here are here on absolute merit alone, and then we find out who can pay and who can't pay. And if you can't pay, there are bursaries and part-bursaries in place. It’s so important to us, sticking to what the original ethos was, which was a place for all kids to come to.
During my time as director, I've gone out and worked with the council to make sure that looked-after kids are coming through the doors. I think a lot of them weren't even coming, because they just assume they can't afford to do that. I try really hard to go into the right schools in Nottingham because the middle class parents will find us, and that’s great. But certain parents won't find us and certain kids won't find us. So it's important that we go out and find them to ensure that what we do here is a real, accurate representation of the city of Nottingham.
There are a huge amount of kids that stay from the age of seven until the age of 21. What a privilege for me as a teacher to see that. Whether that kid goes on to work as an actor or not, the things they’ve learned while they’re here about acceptance of others, about people from different backgrounds to you, about when to use your voice and when to listen, about how to represent yourself in the world and about empathy for others, they're real life skills They go away with a set of skills that they just wouldn't get anywhere else.
I think we lose sight of that, the idea of sort of creativity for creativity's sake. There’s merit in it even if it doesn’t end up being your career.
It's absolutely gutting. When I go into schools, there's no drama any more. No one's gonna take art away. No one's gonna take sport away. And yet, we probably could live without sport. I don't want anyone's funding to go away, but it baffles me how [politicians] can see the merit of sport for kids that aren't going to be sports stars but fail to see the merit of any kind of performance project for kids that aren't going to be performers. It's so important to let kids know about using your voice and how important it is to be able to make your point clearly. And that's not happening in any other lesson.
Michael Socha [This Is England and The Gallows Pole actor] is one of our alumni and he said to me quite recently that if it wasn't for Workshop, he'd be in prison. These things are so important to give some young people that don't want to be great at sport and aren't great at other forms of art a way of expressing themselves in a controlled and safe environment. It’s so important. There are hundreds of other Michaels out there that need places like this.
You mentioned the brilliant Michael Socha. I'm going to give you an opportunity to drop some names and ask who are your biggest success stories from the Workshop over the years?
We're incredibly lucky. Samantha Morton is not only Workshop alumni, but a hard-working Workshop patron now. She's fantastic, and of course Sam came from a background in care so the Workshop changed Sam's life. She spoke so beautifully recently when she was given [the BAFTA Fellowship] about how important it is for kids like her to find an outlet. Vicky McClure is alumni and patron, and again just works so hard for us. Shane Meadows isn’t alumni, but has this huge connection with us because for everybody he casts, he comes here first. All of his films, we're very proud, are filled with Workshoppers, and he is also a patron because he wants to see us keep going.
Then the actors are out there like Michael Socha, Jack O'Connell, Aisling Loftus, Joe Dempsie, Bella Ramsey. Since Bella's success in things like The Last of Us and Game of Thrones, we have people applying to come to the group from Brazil telling us they're willing to make the journey, which is fascinating and wonderful. But we'll stick to kids in Nottingham for now.
It's very rare that those that are successful don't want to give back in some way, and I cannot say how grateful I am for that. In the times we're in now, I'd be struggling without them out there speaking up for us. In the new series of Sherwood, in that first episode, 11 of those actors are Workshop trained. That kind of success rate into the industry is crazy and very unique to us and something we're really proud of.
The Last of Us star Bella Ramsey trained at Television Workshop
(Credit: HBO/Warner Media/Sky UK)
We've spoken a little bit about the kind of challenges you face. More generally, I guess, what is the future looking like for the Workshop and what's on the horizon?
It's been a really funny few years. Obviously, surviving Covid was really difficult. It was the kindness of parents that were willing to still pay their fees while there were no lessons or any online lessons. And we just about got through that. And then after that, I took over and had to think of a new way of going on with things. Let's move to a smaller premises. Let's change the fee system. Let's think of other things we can do that will bring in money. So it's tough, but we're not going anywhere in the foreseeable future.
Sometimes I speak to casting directors, and they go “oh yeah, the Workshop”, but forget that we're still going now. So one of the things we're doing in November this year is we're doing a showcase in London just to say to casting directors: “I know you all know about the Vicky McClures and the Jack O’Connells, but come and look at the new Vickies and Jacks. Come and see the level of talent we've got now.” You have to keep poking and reminding people, otherwise they will just forget about you – not on purpose, but you'll just slip their mind. You've got to change with the times a little bit, as long as we keep that Workshop ethos the same. I understand that better than anyone because I was here in year one, and I'm still here now.
Speaking of those new Jacks and new Vickies. What advice would you give to working class kids wanting to get into the acting industry today?
Find an outlet, find somewhere to go and find the place that feels like it fits for you. Go try it and trust your gut. One of my contemporaries at Workshop, Julian Kemp, is now an award-winning director and writer. He went to the same school as I did and he did two paper rounds so that he could buy a camera and make films. They were terrible – I was in them and they were dreadful – but he made all his mistakes and learned and became a really fantastic filmmaker. Most kids now, working class or otherwise, have got a phone in their hand and that can make anything. Our students now, they're from a world that is so immediate. If they want to know something, they Google it. They don't have to go and look in an encyclopaedia like I did. The world has moved on in wonderful ways. But I think what it has done is made them a generation who think things happen like that, through no fault of their own.
I try to instil in our students to make things happen for yourself. If you can't find somewhere that is serving what you want to do, make it happen yourself. You can learn how to edit on YouTube. You can learn how to do accents off YouTube. Find ways and make things happen yourself if they’re not happening. It doesn't all come to you in this industry.
You can learn more about Television Workshop by visiting their website.
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