I’m sorry, Europe

Pretty well summarised Tom! It's a dire state and I think the shock will be felt for some time to come!

Tom - your analysis is spot on, and I join you in apologizing to our European siblings. I offer two comments:
(1) not all young people voted remain, and not all older people voted leave.
(2) I am tempted to turn around your comments about the Leave camp wanting to cut and run from the EU rather than trying to fix its flaws, and say to you (and all young people): please don't run away from the mess here. It isn't of your making, but you have the skills and the attitudes and the energy that can help fix it. Please help us in the very difficult task of hauling ourselves up by our bootstraps, and getting on with the work of making this a better place.
Having said all that, I wouldn't blame any young person if they chose to leave!

Tom, you make a valid and perfectly argued case. Im older, well 50 and I have to say I served my country in the armed forces, gave my best years to service, lost friends and now I see before me a country that I don't recognise, didn't want and has been hijacked by an outdated dinosaur that whats to give his sad life meaning, least in his head.

We are a divided nation now, i can't even bring myself yo talk to my mother or sister why? Because they got sucked in by Farage and his 'Grass is always greener' & 'Its all their fault' mentality. This is a scar that will take decades to heal, if at all. The first time in my life I have been totally ashamed to call myself British!

I to am sorry Europe for our misguided and diabolic behaviour I only wish sometime in the near future i can find a home out of this country and settle in one of the fantastic countries that make up the EU.

Veteran Photography.

I have to ask what do we have to be sorry for? The E.U had the opportunity to show us some love, when Cameron to his demands over to Brussels in the first place. They didn't they watered down every demand, to the extent that it wasn't legally binding.

I am sorry, but not for leaving, I'm sorry for the reaction, the campaigns was conducted so appallingly, they pressed the immigration argument so much, it gave the far right a voice and encouragement to go out and be racist.

Had the remain camp told us in no uncertain terms that we would not leave, without retaining single market access the immigration argument would have been quashed right there. But no they left it there grumbling on, and because leave won they seem to think there the racist mantra is growing. Not true. People want control of thier democracy again,

The whole thing has been a giant mess, through nobody else's fault but the campaign leaders. It should be them the anger should be turned on, not foriegn nationals who are here paying taxes and contributing to our economy.

The EU has shown us plenty of 'love' over the years. We already had plenty of opt outs, and a rebate. Cameron going to Brussels to get us a deal was a negotiation - key word - and obviously the union isn't going to give huge concessions to us, why would they undermine themselves like that.

The campaigns were run appallingly by both sides yes. Remain camp couldn't say that we wouldn't leave without access to the single market, because, as we are now being told by the European Leaders, it isn't going to happen. They aren't going to let us cherry pick the parts we want. Again, why should they?

I also am not sure how you can genuinely say that there isn't at least some increase in racially charged attitudes and behaviour in the UK, unless you ignore it. I'm not saying that all Brexiteers are racists, not at all, but the racists, ultra-nationalists are now feeling validated and empowered by the decision.

As for taking back control of democracy - It would be a stronger argument if those people participated and educated themselves in the democratic process. Until we have 100% voter turnout, and people who can provide more compelling and insightful comments that "get rid of those unelected bureaucrats" - ignoring that they are held to account, and can be removed by the elected European representatives few of them bothered to have a say in.

It is a mess. Such a mess. I am certain that anger will be directed at those responsible, but that will take time. For now I fear anger will continue to spill and flow from both sides, and end up directed at said foreign nationals.
Thanks all for taking the time to comment, by the way!

I am not saying that, what I am saying is the media have played the immigration argument so much so, it has given the far right encouragement, that combined with possibly with the police documenting it more, just to make numbers stack up.

On your point about us being able to cherry pick I get it, but Merkel said last week if Britain wants to retain single market access that we would have to comply with the rules of it, which means we have retain freedom of movement, goods, services and trade.

The British Government are making out this referendum had everything to do with migration, not true. A large proportion of voters voted for sovreignty. A poll confirmed this. You have to look at what we were being asked to swallow. There was plans to force every E.U member into the Eurozone. That would have mean't goodbye to the Great British Pound, more political integration, they was even looking at integrating the armed forces.

As I have said before the deal brought back from Brussels in February was not legally binding, there was alot of lawyers saying so. Why do you think David Cameron didn't use it to bolster the remain argument, because he knew all it was worth was burning.

Then you have to look at industries that have been wrecked by the E.U in the north of the country, without enough industries coming in to give jobs to the working class, who are not neccesarily astute, and are not able to work in offices. Also the fishing industry. The E.U countries are allowed to fish up to 6 miles away from our shores. Taking business away from our fishers. Then you look even more recently, the Government not being able to bail out the steel industries, due to E.U ruling, something we can change outside the union.

I don't discount the good the E.U project did, however over the last 15 to 20 years, it has been rather distastful for those not living outside the capitals, or more well off cities, as the voting suggests. Everything continually going capitalistic, and continually leaving the poorest poorer and the rich richer. People are angry that politics has become so dilute with those who don't have the fortunes of being able to go to university. This vote shows the people want better and believe we are capable of better.

We all need to stamp out racism accross the board. I would like to point out that it happens in all ethnic groups. It is just those people are always a minority in all ethnic groups. We all who are not racist need to pull together to stamp it out.

If i recall correctly, it was our Government and our MEP's that prevented the EU putting more tariffs on steel to prevent the Chinese dumping it.
I don't think the police are 'documenting it more', that strays dangerously close to a establishment conspiracy theory...
There are plans for a lot of things, not all of them come to fruition, and there was a sentiment in many countries that there was enough integration for the time being, so I doubt it would have gotten very far.
The sovereignty argument would hold more water for me if people were at least properly informed that a lot of the issues they are currently facing, be it lack of jobs, services being cut etc. is the result of Government policy, not the EU. What we have done is voted to remove the protective oversight provided by the EU, and instead given complete control back to those who are ideologically opposed to investing in public services. Investment in the North has been woeful, and they are absolutely right to feel bitter - but that should have been directed at the Government, not the EU. Already we are seeing those places outside of the capital coming to the realisation that they may in fact be financially worth off after voting to leave the EU - of which they were neigh on financially dependent.
I don't quite understand your last point regarding ethnic groups, but I'm glad we at least agree that it needs to be stamped out.

Hi Tom. Like you I am angry of how how this referendum was conducted. I am also angry with David Cameron for using the referendum in his manifesto for political gain. This country has always had an EU opt out card which could be triggered by the will of the people every 5 years in a general election by voting UKIP. It has never happened but that is inconsequential now. I am also concerned by a government who if we were informed correctly (that's never going to happen) that the vast majority were pro remain. Can anyone please explain why when given several opportunities for a valid political argument that based on the falsehoods and appalling conduct of the political parties involved in the referendum at the very least they would be willing to do would be to give the now more informed UK public having learned from and through the poor behaviour fallout and back tracking the chance to cast their vote again. To quote the charlatan Cameron this is the most important political decision for this country for this generation. Obviously not that important then. Not to worry his successor will probably show integrity or perhaps not as the vultures circle around an unrehearsed live episode of "YES PRIMINISTER ", forget what is in the peoples interest I've got a chance to be bloody priminister. What about some integrity from the leader of the opposition..... "better to go with what appears to be the popular view rather than do my job serve the best interests of the country. My job''s being challenged, mustn't take any risk. The picture could not be any clearer to the blind. We have a country that is completely in the hands of a self serving political buffoons who are not interested in serving in the best interests of their country but rather themselves. We should petition Parliament for a Vote of No Confidence just based on the aforesaid. Wouldn't that be funny if it got 33 million signatures.

Hi Tom. Like you I am angry of how how this referendum was conducted. I am also angry with David Cameron for using the referendum in his manifesto for political gain. This country has always had an EU opt out card which could be triggered by the will of the people every 5 years in a general election by voting UKIP. It has never happened but that is inconsequential now. I am also concerned by a government who if we were informed correctly (that's never going to happen) that the vast majority were pro remain. Can anyone please explain why when given several opportunities for a valid political argument that based on the falsehoods and appalling conduct of the political parties involved in the referendum at the very least they would be willing to do would be to give the now more informed UK public having learned from and through the poor behaviour fallout and back tracking the chance to cast their vote again. To quote the charlatan Cameron this is the most important political decision for this country for this generation. Obviously not that important then. Not to worry his successor will probably show integrity or perhaps not as the vultures circle around an unrehearsed live episode of "YES PRIMINISTER ", forget what is in the peoples interest I've got a chance to be bloody priminister. What about some integrity from the leader of the opposition..... "better to go with what appears to be the popular view rather than do my job serve the best interests of the country. My job''s being challenged, mustn't take any risk. The picture could not be any clearer to the blind. We have a country that is completely in the hands of a self serving political buffoons who are not interested in serving in the best interests of their country but rather themselves. We should petition Parliament for a Vote of No Confidence just based on the aforesaid. Wouldn't that be funny if it got 33 million signatures.

Hi Tom. Like you I am angry of how how this referendum was conducted. I am also angry with David Cameron for using the referendum in his manifesto for political gain. This country has always had an EU opt out card which could be triggered by the will of the people every 5 years in a general election by voting UKIP. It has never happened but that is inconsequential now. I am also concerned by a government who if we were informed correctly (that's never going to happen) that the vast majority were pro remain. Can anyone please explain why when given several opportunities for a valid political argument that based on the falsehoods and appalling conduct of the political parties involved in the referendum at the very least they would be willing to do would be to give the now more informed UK public having learned from and through the poor behaviour fallout and back tracking the chance to cast their vote again. To quote the charlatan Cameron this is the most important political decision for this country for this generation. Obviously not that important then. Not to worry his successor will probably show integrity or perhaps not as the vultures circle around an unrehearsed live episode of "YES PRIMINISTER ", forget what is in the peoples interest I've got a chance to be bloody priminister. What about some integrity from the leader of the opposition..... "better to go with what appears to be the popular view rather than do my job serve the best interests of the country. My job''s being challenged, mustn't take any risk. The picture could not be any clearer to the blind. We have a country that is completely in the hands of a self serving political buffoons who are not interested in serving in the best interests of their country but rather themselves. We should petition Parliament for a Vote of No Confidence just based on the aforesaid. Wouldn't that be funny if it got 33 million signatures.

I'm sorry Tom but I think the the E.U would. Have ploughed on with it at a great noughts of speed if we had voted Remain, the E.U would have seen it as a vote to continue with the plans afoot and implement them at break neck speed. Even Junker has said since the referendum that the European Union has to integrate further. The centralised army plans are happening.
I have to say one thing, the reason our politician's have been able to get away with doing very little for so long now, is because the British government have had a scapegoat (the E.U)when things haven't gone according to plan. Then look at comments from Junker before the referendum, "we don't need part time European's" Britain has far more opportunities, to become a global player now, if this is negotiated properly, Britain can be the economic powerhouse it should already be had we not voted remain in 1975. It cannot be a coincidence that the 1 country that rejected the E.U, but kept single market access, is now the 4th largest economy. They have some of the best wages in Europe, they have one of the highest living standards, with low interest rate. The country I am talking about is Norway, when the campaigning was happening in the 1970's and 1990's they we're told the same thing as us, the countries economy would go down the toilet and the country would become insignificant on a global stage, both proved to be incorrect.
As for your comment on the opt-out, yes we have one, however when we do use it, all the other 27 nations leaders have to agree, to the opt-out, which getting is a mammoth task in itself. Even the veto they said they gave Cameron in the deal, was the same all other 27 nations had to agree to the veto. If they wanted the British citizens to vote remain so much, then why could they not offer the British anything of substance? If the didn't want to lose the second largest economy in the bloc then they should have thought about that in February an before.
We may have started the domino effect in the European Union, but had the European Union listened to the people a bit more over the years, then may not have happened, had they not continuously clawed power from nation after nation, and imposed mass austerity on the countries not doung so well.
Greece being a prime example, it's economy was failing, and intead of the E.U looking at the root cause of their economic distress, they just bail them out, at the cost of all the other countries, just plugging a hole. Consequently the failures that were still there were not fixed, and a couple of years later needed bailing out again. Now they are in a worse position than last time they were bailed out.
Then you look at the refugee crisis, againthey failed to act early enough, when it was only a problem, they waited until it become crisis level before acting. You cannot expect the British public to continue to accept this. We cannot continue to keep forking out for the Union's failures. Being an independent nation at least we can hold failure to account. Being part of the E.U we can't.
One thing to add to this, last week I thought I would try e-mailing presindent Junker, and the e-mail address on the page doesn't even work, so even if someone has seriois concerns nobody can notify him even in an e-mail. Is that democracy, when the leader cannot be contacted?

Hi Tom, if I am not mistaken the price Norway had to pay for access to the single market was free access of EU migrant labour. And Norway's Priminister Erna Solberg has warned Britain will not like life outside the EU. I was in adulthood when we joined the Common Market and I am racking my brains trying to remember when we were actually really sucessful at global trading prior to the 20th century. But why worry about the unknow. Once again British politics throws the dice on the crap wheel. I do agree fundamental changes are needed in the EU and there is no end of growing support among MEP's that this needs to happen including the removal of Junker which looks as though that is now in the works. So what is likely to happen and what will it really all come down to? We will still want access to the single market and the EU most definitely will insist we must accept free movement of migrant labour. Our politicians will end up after possibly two years full of rhetoric on how under the circumstances they negotiated the best deal for the UK. We will be back to square one but this time with no influence in any changes whatsoever. Remember the Priminister of Norway's haunting words "Britain will not like life outside the EU".
And I have to say for the very last time to all "Leave" supporters out there whose convictions are now so strong "why when you had the chance in the last General Election did you not all vote UKIP. You knew what it stood for and this could have avoided the corrupt and comical politics of this referendum which appears everybody has agreed upon its appalling conduct but everyone is still quite happy and prepared to standby it's decision. Me thinks the government protested too much and this was really the decision they really wanted all the time and you do not need to be an Einstein to work out why.

What a crock of ****

Don't worry because if you think things were bad before soon you won't be able to afford a crock to **** in.

I find it quite hilarious, that a majority of 64% of Remainiacs didn't even bother their asses to vote, then bleat on about how the older generation have sold them down the river.
I am also staggered, that people believe that leaving the EU is leaving Europe.
My staggeredness increases further, when so called 'Anarchists' and other childish left wing children actually support a neo facist authoritarian state, run mainly by Germany and Corporate bankers..where youth unemployment is at world breaking highs in Greece, Spain, Italy el al...and whose economy is actually shrinking.
Time to smoke some more weed...hug your neighbour in the flat in Islington that Daddy pays for you..and have a cry into your Stella...whilst the people who believe in freedom and democracy get on with what they do

I'm on holiday but I'm so 'staggered' by the sheer infantile nature of your comment I felt compelled to reply, Simon.

Please do explain where these "Remainiac" statistics came from, I'd be super interested.

I'm further staggered by your suggestion hat young people cannot tell the difference between leaving a political union where peace and equality was one of the founding principles, and leaving a geographical construct. We do know the difference.

My staggardness, to use your phrase, seems to never end at your presumptive and outright insulting belief that those of us who actually wanted to stay in the EU, and have certain rights protected from a government who seems to fail to have our interests in mind, instead continuing to serve those bankers you so seen to dislike means that we are all wealthy left winger weed smokers. I'm from a working class family who has lived paycheck to paycheck, I've never smoked weed and I don't believe that the EU is perfect. My opinion comes from removing the filter of jingoistic thinking that has so many people believing Britain is the world pillar of democracy, freedom, and desirability. Oh, and that first class degree in political science, including a detailed examination and essay on the benefits and limitations of the EU.

But by all means, please continue to lash out and those who dare to hope for something more than nationalism -which shares strong roots with facism - I do so love seeing the collective, respectful composure people have when their opinions are challenged.

'If young people have sense, they will emigrate abroad to countries more accepting of change.'

Hi Tom,

But, youth unemployment in the EU is incredibly high. It's about 23 per cent in France rising to 50 per cent in Greece! Or are you assuming they will go to a non-EU country?

If only we could all live in a perfect world. The EU has many faults but also comes with many benefits. Whilst leaving may look attractive now this is all based on a premise that all will be so much better for all in the future. At the moment this is a prediction and for all our sakes I really hope it is a prediction that comes true, but when you look into the eyes of our new front line politicians including Boris Johnson and are completely honest with yourself, you can see and sense their nervousness and concern. The will speel Brexit means Brexit they will speel everything you want to hear. That's what they do to stay popular. All the experts were wrong, the IMF the chief economists etc. There is a social political injustice in this country that has deepened the gulf between the haves and have not, but is this all down to being part of the EU? The biggest injustice that could happen now is that on the back of the EU scapegoat in their fight for political survival the government reluctantly takeus all down a path that ultimately makes us worse off.

What 'rights' have you that are being 'protected' by the EU?...workers rights?...the same rights that the UK had prior to joining the (then) EEC?....or maybe Race or sexual discrimination rights that the UK had prior to joining the (then EEC)....Maybe it's your right to the four weeks holiday (which I hope you're enjoying) that were shrunk from the 5.8 weeks we had prior to joining the (then) EEC?..Maybe your democratic right to vote out the people in power?...oh...wait...hang on

You talk about Nationilism?....What happens in a few years time, when we're all sick to the back teeth of Mrs May and Boris?...You vote them out. What happens when the next Hitler or Stalin takes over at the EU?...do you vote them out too?..I think not somehow..as Ms Merkel is finding out to her cost, with Mr Juenker..and they'll have an EU Superarmy to back them up...so, think on my lad

Wow so much to consider. Well as an employer with 75 staff I can reassure you that all my staff get the statutory 28 days holiday. Yes that is 5.6 weeks. And yes you are right no one likes the current political EU Commission set up and many MEP's from other countries are all vocalising their disagreement with this. In other words making the changes from within. Look when we have left whatever deal eventually is struck if we really come out on top ie; not suffering any detriment for leaving and actually doing well from leaving, everyone will be cheering and happy. But if it doesn't work out that way and we become isolated, lose our economic credibility, lose investment, increased unemployment, an even widening gap between those that have an those who don't, then what? We are all about to find out and I cannot believe anyone sitting on either side of this argument wishes it to be the worse outcome. What you will see now is the mature EU politicians circle their wagons and probably take stock of the the current concerns and as a result of this a better restructure of the EU transpires at our expense.

If the worst case scenario happens Rod, then us Brexiters will be left with egg on our faces, and no doubt the Snowflake Generation will be cock-a-hoop.(including the 64% who didn't even get out of bed before the polls closed)

Until then, they should wind their necks in, get on with it...and shut the hell up.
Personally, although I love Europe..I loathe the EU and everything it stands for..It's been allowed to become a bloated money pit of corruption and fraud...and try as they might, they'll never manage to reform it. A 'NEW Europe?'...Yes, i'd be interested to see that...who knows, what Brexit might do, is help the EU to implode..and a New Europe (similar to the original EEC) may rise from the ashes..It's way to early to tell..but these bleating Sheep, just need to crack on

Not sure what a snow flake is but at a guess I would come under that category. My time is near the end and my passion is not for me but those I love - my children and grandchildren some who are just embarking adulthood. I want only the best for their generation and I don't want this country to come out on the wrong side of history. Debate and argumentative discussion is healthy and in such a life impacting decision as this the process should be challenged every step of the way. Before embarking in any campaign a thought process and planning is sensible and normal way to proceed. In this case who is stupid to believe this had been done and now on the back foot we are closing the gate after the horse has bolted. Put up and shut up is for idiots because if we are still living in a democracy every person has the right to challenge and question the political will at any time to ensure our politicians are placing our country's interests before their political ambitions. If this all goes to the wall Theresa May like Cameron will go back to a handsome MP's salary topped up with a £40k per year priminister's pension. So no hardship for failure then.

haha..No Rod..the snowflake generation is the younger one.
This guy puts it better than I ever could
http://www.xxymagazine.com/im-ashamed-i-voted-remain-june-23rd-2016/18945

Referendum Pro’s and Con’s

Pre-June 23rd “Independence Day”

Over the last few weeks I have been studying the pro’s and con’s of the up and coming EU Referendum and although at the outset I was undecided and to some extent somewhat uninterested what I have learnt from my investigations has fired up my intention to do something to ensure we leave the totalitarian, bureaucratic organisation that is hell bent on controlling the populations and governments of all who those who are gathered into their net.

I have had my eyes opened to the utter waste of the money poured into the EU currently to support the Orwellian ‘Big Brother’ organisation society that is the EU and its FIVE Presidents. The Five Presidents Report openly states the intentions of the EU Elite Bureaucrats from 2015 – 2025 and god forbid we are not part of the EU at that time.

The amazing thing is to learn that our current government has the idea and totally misguided notion that we can have things changed when in fact what is planned to happen in the future has already been discussed and currently a 24 page Report produced that is available to everybody to read but never alter. We are totally helpless to make any changes in the future. The law is the law!! EU style.

Where have I heard those words before ?? not government / dictatorship !!!
This to my mind points me to a book that was written long ago when no mind was taken to heart as to its contents. I draw the parallel to what was written but never contested !!!

How can we (the UK) continue to be outside the single currency when the whole of the report I have referred to points to EMU that requires ALL MEMBER countries must use the single currency to ensure that fiscal policy is common across ALL member States!!!

I watched a debate on TV, too with 3 remain and 3 leave campaigners and found nothing on the remain side arguments that convinced me of their value. In fact the audience poll at the end gave the motion to the leave the majority vote.

I am now worried that apathy on the part of the electorate, at one point myself included, could give the remain side a majority due to the government backed campaigns and financed door to door postings. I have also read that according to polls 1 in 3 in NI are on the REMAIN side, 1 in 2 in Scotland are on the LEAVE side while England and Wales are even so that could create a great divide again.

I am sure the majority of the general public have no idea what the future holds with respect to the EU membership and all who have to follow the rules !(1984 and ‘Big Brother’ pales into insignificance) when I delved deeper into the maelstrom of changes envisioned by the bureaucratic elite that are unelected and dictating the future to us chapter and verse as I write with no option to reverse ever.

Just referring to the impact on finances and immigration issues is the only the skin of the rice pudding when we dig deeper we find a whole raft of proposals that should also be made public before it is too late.

Everything I have looked at has negatives if we do stay.

Every aspect of life as we know it will be DICTATED by Brussels and we will have absolutely no say in the matter. It is blatently obvious that what is going on right now in the power house of the European Commision and it’s 4 other entities is planning for OUR future without as much as a by your leave to oppose even a minor point.

We have to raise the banner and explain in minor detail every aspect of the EU strategy that will demolish our democratic existence.
We NEED to make the public aware of all of the negatives in remaining in the EU as I am sure that all of the salient facts have not been made aware to the general public in such a way that an informed decision can be made.

Every debate I have seen and heard concentrates on Finance and Immigration without explaining the behind the scenes activities that are not generally discussed but to my mind are the actual crux of the argument to LEAVE !!! WE WILL HAVE NO CONTROL OVER OUR DESTINY EVER AGAIN !!!

LEAVE !! AND MAKE BRITAIN GREAT AGAIN !!!

YES I agree there are negatives in leaving initially. However, this can only be short term and it must be realised that in that short time period the UK will have £315,000,000 per week credited to our balance of payments, which will provide a respite for the struggling NHS, create revenue to create new jobs, housing, schools, improve public services and many other areas of our society
The Common Fisheries Policy has decimated the fishing industry in the UK. If we leave will that hopefully reverse the effect ? Can the industry recover if that happens ? .

Reference :

Dr Lee Rotherham, who carried out the research for The Taxpayers’ Alliance, said:

“For years everyone has known, even in Brussels, that the Common Fisheries Policy has been a disaster. It has trashed the environment, wrecked coastal communities like Hull and Grimsby, and dumped hundreds of thousands of tonnes of dead fish uselessly back into the sea. If any government minister had ordered such actions, he would have been lynched.
The time is long overdue to scrap the CFP and manage our territorial seas with the self-interest and self-enlightenment of countries like Norway, Iceland and Canada.”

Costing the Common Fisheries Policy, January 2009

Commenting on the TPA study, the Aberdeen (Scotland) Press and Journal in its editorial of 30 January 2009, The Price of Fish, wrote: “In case any proof were needed that the European Union’s Common Fisheries Policy is one of the most damaging political schemes ever to affect a UK industry, some facts about its impact on every single household will help.

Pressure group The Taxpayer’s Alliance has calculated that the policy costs every family £111 a year in higher taxes and lost business and puts ₤186 a year on the average food bill.

As the north and northeast of Scotland has witnessed, the impact on jobs has been severe. More than 9,000 directly in fishing and up to 90,000 have been lost from onshore dependent industries.
This is before the baffling phenomenon of throwing away tons of dead fish each year has been considered.

The problem with the CFP of course, is that we are pretty much stuck in a world in which the European Union will forever meddle with this vital Scottish industry. …

The CFP is a triumph of pork barrel politics over commonsense and compassion.”

This is only one example of the ridiculous, damaging policies that have been thrust at us by the EU policies and damaged OUR economy since its inception in 1973.

Far from being beneficial to us the EU and its policies have been bleeding the UK economy dry and at the same time lessened the controls on our own governmental authority and if we stay that will be eradicated completely over time and we will just become european puppets of our
Brussels masters without even knowing who they are.

I had no idea that UK trade with non european countries was banned by the EU and that
additional EU legislation added 17% to our prices.

Taking the current ecomomic growth the EU has virtually been stagnant for almost a decade and shows no sign of improving in the near future. The only way for the UK to start increasing its economic growth is to shake off the shackles of the EU that currently constricts our ability to reach global free trade agreements to start improving our global trade.

Post 23rd June

Since the referendum there are many Countries looking to negotiate trade agreements with the UK

LEAVE !!! OTHERWISE WE WILL HAVE NO CONTROL OVER OUR DESTINY EVER AGAIN !!!

LEAVE !! AND MAKE BRITAIN GREAT AGAIN !!!

I would now like to raise a different argument within history that I have in the past few weeks investigated quite thoroughly and unearthed a great deal of argument that reveals conspiracy and intrigue that has been hidden from the general public throughout history since the beginning of the 1900 and to some extent even earlier.

These revelations bring together a great number of well know names of people, Companies and international organisations involving Germany, USA and Great Britain. The European Union has been built on a collection of lies and manipulation by a collection of Global leaders, politicians, corporate executives and government organisations throughout the last 100 years. All of this within a hidden agenda to achieve Global control of the world population. Even back to the time after the Second World War the US had a plan called The United States of Europe.

Coming back to modern times the Brussels Bureaucratic control of EU citizens rights are already being eroded to a 1984 ‘Orwellean Degree’ and I have undeniable evidence of the fact. Examples of which are given below.

Extracts from “The Nazi roots of the Brussels EU” http://www.nazi-roots-of-brussels-eu.org/

Storing citizens’ confidential personal information !!

In early 2010, it emerged that large amounts of confidential personal information about European citizens are being held on a giant Europe-wide computer network that can be accessed by more than
500,000 terminals.

Known as the Schengen Information System (SIS), the system holds a wide variety of personal data that includes the names, dates and places of birth, nationalities, physical characteristics and other details of people placed under “discreet surveillance”.

Created following the implementation of the so-called Schengen Agreement – which, in 1985, as a key step towards the creation of a European Superstate, abolished checks at the internal borders of most Brussels EU member states – the system consists of a national section in each of the participating countries and a technical support function in Strasbourg, France.

At the time of writing, an expanded SIS database, known as SIS2, is expected to become operational in early 2013 and increase the number of “alerts” held on the system from 31 million to 70 million. However, an official European Commission working document envisages an even larger database and specifically states that the new system “should be tested with a view to ensuring a scalability up to 100 million alerts.”

Large amounts of confidential personal information about European citizens are being held on a giant Europe-wide computer network that can be accessed by more than 500,000 terminals.

This is only ‘the tip of the iceberg’ that IS Brussels ‘EU CONTROL’

Monitoring “abnormal behaviour”!!

The Brussels EU is also spending millions of Euros developing "Orwellian" computer technologies designed to examine CCTV images and search the internet for "abnormal behaviour". Under a programme known as “Project Indect”, it is developing computer software to monitor and process information from web sites, discussion forums, file servers, peer-to-peer networks and even individual computers.

Open Europe, an independent pro-transparency think tank, believes the information gathered by Project Indect could be used by the European Joint Situation Centre (SitCen), a little known body seen by many observers as effectively being the beginning of a Brussels EU secret service. Part of the so-called “European External Action Service” headed by Foreign Affairs Minister and Vice President of the EU Commission, Catherine Ashton – whose previous functions in the Brussels EU have included the enforcing of drug patents – SitCen is already known to contain a cell of secret service agents seconded from European capitals. I

Investigation and prosecution programmes are now multiplying so rapidly in the Brussels EU that, according to Stephen Booth, an Open Europe analyst, 17 law enforcement systems and databases currently operate or are being developed, of which 6 require the collection or storage of personal data at EU level.

Many other EU ‘Projects’ threaten to undermine the very fabric of our democratic rights !!!

Surveillance of people promoting “radical messages”!!

Monitoring the political beliefs of citizens!!

Monitoring conversations in European cities!!

Recording the conversations of airline passengers!!

Spies in the skies!!

Proposals to fit “black boxes” in cars!!

Biometric cataloguing and identification of citizens!!

A revealing news release published in late 2009 by Giesecke & Devrient, a technology provider headquartered in Munich, Germany, appears to suggest that the Brussels EU is moving towards imposing a system of biometric cataloguing and identification on its citizens.
Outlining a European research venture known as “Project BioP@ss,” which it describes as “the biggest chip card research project in the EU,” the news release summarizes the project’s goal as being “the introduction of an electronic ID card in chip card format valid throughout the entire EU.”

In addition to its function as a basic ID card, however, the card is also apparently intended to provide “a secure means of authentication for services offered by governments and public authorities, with BioP@ss-holders able to identify themselves electronically and carry out biometric authentication on the Internet.”

Reading between the lines, the project’s ultimate objective appears to be for European citizens to be required to use the card for everything from registering a change of address, registering a vehicle, filing a tax return and casting a vote in elections, to accessing services provided by the retail, banking and insurance sectors.

More worrying, however, is the possibility that European citizens may eventually face the nightmare scenario of their DNA, fingerprints and personal details being available at the click of a button to the Brussels EU.

Worse still, decisions on the expansion of so-called “homeland security” in the Brussels EU are seemingly being made by the very companies that will ultimately profit from them.
According to the UK-based civil liberties monitoring group Statewatch, the design of the €1.4 billion European Security Research Programme (ERSP) has been "outsourced to the very corporations that have the most to gain from its implementation,” such as the defence companies Thales, Finmeccanica, EADS, Saab and Sagem Défénsé Sécurité.

This is truly ‘Big Brother’ is Watching YOU !!! is this what we were heading towards ??

THE EU is being designed to CONTROL the masses and NOT for the GOOD of the people.

The EU is stagnated and the plight of the countries in financial difficulty will NEVER be helped by the EU.

NB!!
The original ROME treaty (1957) has an Article written as follows :

• Article 2.

• The Community shall have as its task, by establishing a common market and an economic and monetary union and by implementing the common policies or activities referred to in Articles 3 and 3a, to promote throughout the Community a harmonious and balanced development of economic activities, sustainable and non-inflationary growth respecting the environment, a high degree of convergence of economic performance, a high level of employment and of social protection, the raising of the standard of living and quality of life, and economic and social cohesion and solidarity among Member States.

I had highlighted the so called PROMISE made in this treaty but when one looks at the current state of the EU countries there is mass unemployment and specifically in Greece total decimation of a once proud Country on the verge of complete bankruptcy and all the EU does is impose more austerity. This is promoting their promises ??

However these WORDS have now been ERASED from the subsequent treaties, did anybody notice this in the past ? I t should have started ring bells !!!

• Article 3.
•
• For the purposes set out in Article 2, the activities of the Community shall include, as provided by this Treaty and in accordance with the timetable set out therein:
•
• (a) the elimination as between Member States, of customs duties and
• quantitative restrictions on the import and export of goods, and of all other measures having equivalent effect;
•
• (b) a common commercial policy;
•
• (c) an internal market characterized by the abolition, as between
• Member States, of obstacles to the free movement of goods, persons, services and capital;
•
• (d) Measures concerning the entry and movement of persons in the
• internal market as provided for in Article 100C;
•
• (e) a common policy in the sphere of agriculture and fisheries;
•
• (f) a common policy in the sphere of transport;
•
• (g) a system ensuring that competition in the common market is not
• distorted;
•
• (h) the approximation of the laws of the Member States to the extent
• required for the functioning of the common market;
•
• (i) a policy in the social sphere comprising a European Social Fund;
•
• (j) the strengthening of economic and social cohesion;
•
• (k) a policy in the sphere of the environment;
•
• (l) the strengthening of the competitiveness of Community industry;
•
• (m) the promotion of research and technological development;
•
• (n) encouragement for the establishment and development of trans-
• European networks;
•
• (o) a contribution to the attainment of a high level of health
• protection;
•
• (p) a contribution to education and training of quality and to the
• flowering of the cultures of the Member States;
•
• (q) a policy in the sphere of development cooperation;
•
• (r) the association of the overseas countries and territories in order to increase trade and promote jointly economic and social
• development;
•
• (s) a contribution to the strengthening of consumer protection;
•
• (t) measures in the spheres of energy, civil protection and tourism.
•
• Article 3a.
•
• 1. For the purposes set out in Article 2, the activities of the Member States and the Community shall include, as provided in this Treaty and in accordance with the timetable set out therein, the adoption of an economic policy which is based on the close coordination of Member States' economic policies, on the internal market and on the definition of common objectives, and conducted in accordance with the principle of an open market economy with free competition.
•
• 2. Concurrently with the foregoing, and as provided in this Treaty and in accordance with the timetable and the procedures set out therein, these activities shall include the irrevocable fixing of exchange rates leading to the introduction of a single currency, the ecu, and the definition and conduct of a single monetary policy and exchange rate policy the primary objective of both of which shall be to maintain price stability and, without prejudice to this objective, to support the general economic policies in the Community, in accordance with the principle of an open market economy with free competition.
•
• 3. These activities of the Member States and the Community shall entail compliance with the following guiding principles: stable prices, sound public finances and monetary conditions and a sustainable balance of payments.

Just to reinforce the fact that no mention of employment is made in the entirety of the subsequent treaties also reinforces my opinion that the EU is not interested in promoting employment in any respect. Only profit for the wealthy industrialists.

In fact there is an EU organisation known as the ERT “European Round Table” that comprises only of senior corporate executives of all the Major European Companies ADVISING the European Commission for one reason and one reason only, PROFIT!!! Forget the people’s rights and their livelihood!!

There are many other aspects of EU control that has been foisted on us in the last 40 years that I will be taking into account in further comments.

To Tom Innes
I hope you will comment on these findings and I would like to hear your opinions on what could have been done by our government or MEP's to stop this bureaucratic juggernaut that is the European Commission and European Court of Justice of unelected personages. Nothing that is proposed to the EUC is binding and can be dismissed.

I hope that my comments resonate with your members and contributors and I would welcome any comments in return.

Derek C Gibson

Hi Tom,

Why no comments ?

Hi,
The main reason I haven't commented is because I was on holiday. The second reason is because your comment was exceptionally dense and getting through it was hard.
It seemed well researched, but simultaneously determined to paint the EU in a negative light without acknowledging at all that the UK government isn't exactly perfect, and getting rid of them isn't as easy as just voting them out. We have a electoral system that creates bias. The EU is elected with proportional representation - and European Parliament has the power to vote out Presidents.
"£315,000,000 per week credited to our balance of payments, which will provide a respite for the struggling NHS" is a lie.
Your arguments on fingerprint scanning and DNA is pure speculation. You can be sure that if there was absolutely nothing being done to track people of potential danger those who campaign Leave will be using it as another reason of how being in the EU is dangerous to our security etc. once again ignoring how we aren't in the Schengen area anyway.

Hi Guys, we all need to get on the same page because ultimately it is quite clear we all want what is best for everyone. I personally do not believe that what the EU is trying to do is in anyway as clandestine as people would like to think. They are about bring people together and working in harmony with each other.
There may be some faults in the planning that need ironing out but to say that they are the cause of all our problems is unfair. Long before the existence of the EU and for that matter in the earlier format as the Common Market, there were lots of injustices in this country with a south north divide and the haves and the have not’s ensuring that the class divide would never really be extinguished. But that has mainly been down to the ambitious and unscrupulous businesses (and I can cite more recently the Maxwell’s and the current Sir Philip Green, as well as the practices of Sports Direct). These people did not need the EU to cause heartache and misery to the masses while fattening their own pockets.
Whether you voted to Leave or to Stay within the EU the fact remains that ultimately it is like any club with its own rules and like it or not if you want to play you have to abide by the rules or get out altogether. Why would you expect anything different? Can we survive outside the single market? Well hope so because if we can't and this country crashes headlong into recession those that thought leaving the EU may just live to regret that wish. Will the EU strike a deal that allows us access to the single market. Of course they will as long as we abide by their rules. When Article 50 is launched they immediately hold the upper hand and they know this and they are very very unlikely to back down on free movement of labour and before anyone spout off with "they will have to because they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face" does anybody seriously think that they will back down. I mean seriously do you. The government will drag these negotiations out for as long as possible because they know that as long as they drag them out we are still legally in the EU. The question is will the EU let us drag the negotiations beyond the 2 year remit and how much damage will it cause during this time. Whichever way this develops i really hope the UK comes through this OK as I am sure you do as well.

Hello everyone, as a person who actually lives in a 3rd world country that's repeatedly tried to enter the EU and is still struggling to do so year after year, I just want to say something to those who think that leaving is a good idea:

It's not.

I'm not saying this because I've done research on the subject, I'm saying this because I live it.

If you thought you were leaving behind a bureaucratic nightmare then say hello to its bigger, tougher, meaner cousin with a prison record. Tourism WILL drop. This is not speculation, it's a fact. You have absolutely no idea what it's like waiting for a VISA. And most potential tourists will give up visiting the UK for that reason alone. You will NOT have the same access to the market (anyone saying otherwise is ether lying to you or omitting to mention all the numerous small "irrelevant things" which really add up when pooled together). All that money you'll save on "not giving it to the EU" you'll be spending it on getting access to the market, as well as all the additional fees, taxes and **** you will now have to pay for doing any sort of interaction with the EU. Foreign business and job opportunities WILL drop. Aside from the additional paperwork hassle, the extra fees (get use to that word, you'll be using it a lot from now on) will discourage many companies seeing to do business or hire people outside the EU as well as many prospective people/companies from outside the EU seeking to work or expand their business into the EU. I had to enter college (at my age!) for no other reason than just to get access to the "Work Abroad" student's program which levies many of the foreign opportunity restrictions/fees/paperwork. And even with the program I still had to pay a lot of money just to get the opportunities for an interview with a prospective employer!

So in the end, if I don't have anything constructive to add to this discussion you might be asking yourselves "Why did you even bother posting here?" Well that's because I'm a mean son-of-a-bitch who likes to blow off steam by gloating at idiots (you) who had something precious, a privilege (being part of the EU), and then threw it away by not realizing it's worth.

Enjoy the slow, painful years to come, heh. Peace out.

What a load of rubbish you wrote. So, we have left Europe now. And nothing disastrous has occurred. Just wish we had celebrated more. Lets hope we follow Trumps lead and start building our own walls!

Yes, of course. You ONLY had a global equity loss of 2 trillion dollars. Why would anyone call that disastrous?

Actually it was only 1.9999 Trillion

Master Tom Innis...Seriously?
As a seasoned veteran and an accomplished broadcaster and from a family who has been within the fabric of politics since 1674, I am able to tell you with confidence; I have studied The EU since 1982 when it was the EEC. along with expert professional guidance; I KNOW that this is a major triumph. Through DECADES of HARD EARNED EXPERIENCE! You, Sir, are very narrow-minded; and lost in your young student like innocence. The pound Sterling always prevails. You; will learn. However blogging something like this? This will hurt you! This will damage you professionally. You have a future. Be careful. Or this will make you a laughing stock. Take your future more seriously young man.

Mr Liskutin, I take my hat of to you expert advice for Mr Innis.

My Country's heritage and security for my grandchildren was why I voted OUT, glad I did and NEVER will I apologise to anyone. Stupid article by a young man who will certainly regret writing it, the UK will become stronger and the EU will collapse.

I'm a mature student at University in Liverpool and only a hand full of the students share this authors view and I look at them also thinking you will be proved wrong staying within the EU would be bad for the UK.

I love to read the remoaners' comments, it makes me so happy that those who believe in the idea of a federal Europe, championed first in a General Election by Mosley in 1951, were defeated.

What a childish rant. The EU is not "Europe." We are not leaving the continent of Europe, just a failed and undemocratic institution called the EU. You would be well suited to a job in the Guardian...

The EU will collapse. The UK economy will survive outside the single market. Well hold on tight to your shirt tails. Your going to find out just how true that is. After all we all knew and understood what the plans were going to be after electing to come out of the EU didn't we and now our politicians can just put them all into action? Oops did we forget the plans! What were we voting on again?

What a load of crap. We chose democracy over a dictatorship, we chose independence, we chose to preserve our identity and sovereignity. Stop crying and wallowing in guilt you soft ****.

Most erudite.

Little knowledge is dangerous but in this case I think we can agree by the response - mentally retarded

What a load of rubbish,your entitled to your opinion.But the British people aren't idiots,just look at the state of Europe since influx of thousands of Islamic flow.we the British don't want it here and we voted .Our country is Great,Mr and it always will be,we are a great people,a great island ,we don't need and don't want Europe telling us what to do thank you very much.My advice to you is ,since you feel the way you do.Leave and go live in one of European states .Bye Bye

I think that you will find that the ignorance of which you speak is all from you stupid ReMoaners, I consider your attitude to be not only one sided but Blinkered as well, As for Theresa May she is doing a fantastic job under the circumstances, It is you and the rest of your warped thinking that is Dividing the Nation "Shame on you". You and your ReMoaner mates are disgusting, You are all not only stupid but by the actions of Morons like you the "Hard Brexit" That you fear is all the more likely

Here here. Theresa May is doing a fantastic job. Although we are not sure what it is she is actually doing and that is probably because she is playing her cards close to her chest and obviously doesnt want the EU to know in advance what her strategy is. There was something in the press to day about some silly leaked memo supporting this. I mean what is it you do not understand by Brexit means Brexit? The rest of the country intelligencia know exactly what this means and that it is exactly what it says on the label "Brexit"!

So what if we are out of the single market. During the war years people bonded and learned to live off the land and support one another under the harshest conditions that existed and we can do it again if needs be and hold our heads high in doing so. Thankfully it will not affect me but I am sure those impacted by the possible large number of job losses would rather endure and at the very least have back control of our sovereignty. After all it is all the fault of the EU that we are in such a mess in the first place which has always been totally beyond the control of our elected politicians. We should really feel sorry for them.

Storm in a teacup...what people forget is Europe needs us more than we need Europe...you only have to look at the Import/Export figures.
We import far too much crap food from Europe, whilst British Farmers/Fishermen feel the pinch constantly..thats all changing!..British Farming is on the up and up...Rod Booth is quite correct, Britain is more than capable of supporting itself

Yes let's all keep milk goats and keep chickens to survive leaving Europe. Perhaps you watched to too many episodes of the "Good Life" in the 1980s? Did you also forget how crap life the UK was in the 1970s before the EU? Britain actually went bankrupt and had to go cap in hand to the IMF for money to bail it out. People have short memories or are simply to young to know anything useful.

Not wishing to dampen anyones enthusiasm but my previous comment was a form of sarcasm. My pro European colleague obviously did not read into this but despite this i must be fair by correcting a couple of errors said because May did actually speak with Trump as commented she was down the list in pecking order (9th i believe) and the UK does have other trade ties besides the EU. But whilst you are correct the EU referendum has dictated that we must leave the EU please also note that it was close with 49.1% versus 51.9% and even if some of those 51.9% actually were voting to take back sovereignty how much of that percentage were taken in by the publicised lies that everyone backtracked on as well. In a recent poll it suggests that 66% of the public do not want Article 50 to be actioned until we know exactly what the strategy is going to be (the pro's & con's). Whilst May might not want that strategy to be made public it should at least be discussed in detail if needs be in secrecy, off air within the House of Commons who are supposed to be our elected representatives. If it doesn't pass the credibility test with them then May should be made to go back to the drawing board.

Gout am, I'm pro European. My earlier comment was sarcasm. Hopefully you've can see this?

Isolation where do you get off on that one, Do you not realise that we will once again re-engage with pretty much every Country in the World, I would say the reverse of Isolation would be a better way to describe our leaving the EU. You and your fellow ReMoaners simply spout out rubbish as truth and then say everyone else Lies...Bull****. mikeOXMOORINBLOOM

What a load of Dross. Colonialism where did you dig that up from, There are still a lot of former Colonies that hold the UK in far higher esteem than you ReMoaners, Nationalsim what do you mean by this stupid comment. It is not Nationalistic to want to leave a Community that does not work, The EU is Defunct and other Countries have come to the same conclusion, We need National unity and get behind Brexit but idiots like you will only ensure that the Hard Brexit which you seem to fear will come about partialy because of your Stupidity...mike OXMOORINBLOOM

I'm sorry Europe; for all the idiots who argue amongst themselves with little self-respect and national identity. let alone no faith in their own country to independently deal with it's own legal system and legislations to which end they are compelled to cling to a superstate system concocted in 1936 by Josef Goebbels and reinvented post-war by his former cabinet members to which has successfully and cleverly achieved chaos across Europe and once more, nations fighting amongst themselves. It's the fascist dream. I'm sorry Europe that we didn't snuff out this excreta system back in the seventies when we had the chance before we were tricked into joining a system that changes and creates new laws we have no power to debate every day. I'm sorry Europe for the idiots that run our nation who refuse to accept the democratic system and in their Elitist tantrums, privately fund legal action to overthrow the nation's majority vote, leaving ridicule and embarrassment for all who are associated with the British Flag.

I'm sorry Europe.

You were Raped!
as were we!

Our views and comments on the EU are probably of no consequence anyway. I feel we've abandoned ship in a timely fashion....I think the EU is in the grip of it's own death. I think it's a fat, bloated slightly blue coloured old fart...who has had a good life at other people's expense, and the UK is just the first bedside visitor to decide that now is the best time to leave the room, and let it croak.

I personally will jump up and down on it's grave, when it finally gives up it's grip and implodes up it's own rectum...and good riddance to it

I'm sorry Europe, we let you down..

Speak for yourself.

Rarely have I come across someone who expresses the real issues so succinctly and as they are. A lot of Brits do not realise the real issues at stake here and how badly the country comes across to other European nations and the world, all of whom are scratching their heads and asking what the hell the Brits are thinking of. Get real those who voted to leave - stop thinking of yourselves and think of your children and your children's children for a change!

Too late for that I'm afraid Paul. Too many egotistical politicians that stupidly believe 51.9% will reflect in their favour in the next general election. In truth what percentage of that 51.9% were votin more against the establishment because staying in the EU was what the establishment wanted. The trouble is those disenfranchised who feel left behind were voting more against the government whi had never focused their attention on them before. May and the Tories have played nicely into this Brexit means Brexit and pointing a very skeletal finger as to the reason people have been left behind is because of the evil EU and it's membership. God help them if the people eventually wise up and realise it is less to do with the EU and more to do with their complacency and looking after themselves. And if you think the current play with Brexit isn't them still with their snouts in the public trough and playing on and purposely embellishing on what they think the public wants to hear, be warned. If you are good judge of character next time May is speaking on tv watch her facial expressions and particularly her eyes and them tell me this isn't more about the benefits to her political career and if the nation had voted to kill the Pope she would be at the microphone regularly stating Popeicide means Popeicide with a sniper strapped to her back.

What do you think the EU's flaws and issues are and how would you have fixed them?

From the inside as a member state. So many people are arguing that the UK is doing so well with the cheaper pound being good for exports despite the Brexit decision that they have forgotten that we are doing well because we are still in the single market which is benefiting our exports to Europe.

ONLY apologise for yourself, you don't represent the majority of people in Britain, your views are clouded and not rational, To wish to be Governed by an unelected body from another country is really Rather childlike.

Tom as a Graduate in politics l would have hoped you had read the Lisbon Treaty, by 2020 Britain will have lost 60+ vetos and majority voting is established, which means British interests will be at the mercy of the the smallest and ever more growing number of countries that the EU gathers in. You should know that this deeper joining of institutions will lead to a European army, a single European Financial institution controlled by the EU. It will ultimately lead to Britain becoming a state within a Supperstate, with powers granted to us by the EU. I think one is a Globalist for wanting to give all control to a foreign body and a Democracy when one wishes to be in control of one's own destiny.

Don't give up Tom. There are so many people who are afraid to speak their truth. We need people like you. Young people who speak up for what they believe in and refuse to keep quiet. It is the younger generation and future generations that will impact the most in this far reaching decision which has mainly been made by an older generation. There are many who have grown up believing themselves to belong to Europe not just the Uk who feel the same as you do.

History will be the judge of what the right decision should have been. I would also be more sympathetic to the political arguments if it was not clearly obvious that there is more than political motive, ambitions and political egos being fuelled these last six months. Political statements and promises were made by May to Scotland, Ireland and Wales that have been reneged upon. David Davis has even admitted recently in the media that the government had no clear strategy plan regarding the divorce negotiations.This wasn't a clear majority win and any idiot thinking 48.1% to 51.9% where emotions were running high against the existing government at the time is a clear majority needs to put themselves on the other side of this argument and answer very honestly - would they have accepted these percentages as a clear defeat

Hi tom just seen your blog on the thought's of how we made such a big mistake on voting to leave the EU , I live in the North of England and have to say life up North is grim to say the lest , I wont blame the EU for the influx of workers flushing in to my city which drives down wages and limits the naïve people finding work , I wont blame the EU for the lack of affordable house as a result of large number of foreign workers needing homes to live in which push's up the rent for the locals as greedy landlords make a killing , as these are caused by bad policies of the governments at the time been Labour .
But the EU is not the way for the UK to head into for the common working people as you just need to look at parts of Southern Europe to see .
I have a feeling Tom you are the one which needs the UK more than EU as the UK as given you the chance to fulfil the needs in your life and career which you should be thankful for not spitting in the face of the people of this great land .
Time will tell if we made the right move but until then we need to work for the common good not some small narrative which you have in mind .
So to cap it off Tom you seem good honest bloke with a left wing thoughts to push your biased agenda along but don't say we lost the UK to doom and gloom which you portray as that would not be true .

Hi Ian

I would normally agree with everything you have said but unfortunately real life experience conflicts with your argument. I have a small business that employs just under 100 staff. I am not the only employer or as recently reported in the media, recruitment specialists that will tell you what I am about to tell you. We offer wages far in excess to minimum wage eg; £11.50/ £10.25 & £8.50 per hour with flexible hours of working. Despite this when I list vacancies for my small business I am deluged with applications by people who have not any genuine intentions of following through with any interviews or accepting any job offers but merely wish to satisfy the criteria of their JSA benefit by being able to demonstrate they have applied for a number of jobs. The only applications amongst the hundreds we receive that are nearly always 100% legitimate and keen to want to work are from migrant workforce applications.

Many employers like myself find this so disheartening as we support your argument about British jobs for British people. Unfortunately it transpires that there is a HUGE (absolutely huge) amount of British people on benefits that do not want to come off benefits when given a chance to work leaving employers like myself with little to no option. So you can understand from a business perspective and there are many more businesses in the same position that dread the end to the free movement of the migrant labour workforce when the British labour workforce dreads the possibility of having to work when given the opportunity.

Of course we do find some good British applicants amongst the huge number of applications but that ratio is 1 in 500 at best. Other than that I support everything else you say.

Hi Rod
Thanks for your comment, I also understand where you are coming from too regarding the unemployed within the system as backing in 2009 I was one of them I have to say Rod the time I spent looking for work was not a happy one and I have a lot of good skills to been a Mig welder to EN287 / Asme ix and also a fully skilled coachbuilder working on Blue Light , PSV and commercial vehicle's all my working career but still no jobs for me , tried to get in to Allied work cause I have so/so carpenter which a firm could have improved me but it was easier to employ a foreign worker over me which I understand but does not help me get on with life tho .
As you say you own a company which employs a fair few people and you say its hard to get staff which I can not understand if you are willing to train them or is it easier to get it from abroad to be true fully honest .
Just like to add this one to Rod can you tell me back in 2001 my hourly rate was in the tune of about £8.50 ish 16 years on and now am on £10 ph which is a increase of 1.50ph is that right my friend for a bloke who building all the vehicle's which ferry people and goods around and about :-)

What continues to amaze me is the apparent disregard for the unanswered questions that still surround Brexit, both by Brexiteers and the politicians - even now when the real stumbling blocks are starting to emerge.
"Britain will not be paying any money to EU." Really?
What about Gibraltar? We won't let Spain dictate terms. Really?
What about the Irish border - it's going to remain a "soft" border. Really?
May's going to stop Scotland holding a second independence referendum. Really?
The rights of British citizens who are resident in the EU are going to be maintained. Really?
(Already expats in Spain are seeing their pensions dwindle as the pound plummets)
What about reciprocal rights to health care?
What about European airspace?
The car industry will continue to thrive in the UK when the cost of parts from Europe escalate. Really?
Farmers are not going to miss their subsidies from the EU. Really?
The fishing industry will regain control of our territorial waters. Really?
And those imports which used to come from the EU, we'll now get from the USA, China or Australia. Really? (These countries are not exactly next door.)
Okay, well England might be worse off after all that, but at least we'll be a sovereign nation. Presumably like Andorra.
I know we're leaving the EU, and not leaving Europe, but can someone enlighten me as to what that actually means, other than not being towed off into the mid-Atlantic?
And a final word to those who wonder why Scotland would seek to re-entry to Europe when it wishes to free itself of the shackles of the UK. Just imagine how you would have felt if, in a general election, the majority of England voted, say, Labour, and got as a Prime Minister Marie LePenn. And if that were that the reality, then, yes, I would have voted Leave too. But that is the reality for Scotland.

I am glad Uk left
I remember before eu small companies could make on currency changes importing from 1 factory in Denmark one week, dpain the next. They could undercut multi-nationals. There was a factory in every country unemployment was less governments richer and stronger. Then came along EU everything centralised and one factory in one centralised country. The unit price went so high only amazon etc benefited. The UK will benefit away from EU student orgs are bribed get funding off EU and dont see unemploment or real probs in de-industrialised areas.

This government has their immigration criteria around the wrong way if they are going to implement anything at all. I speak with first hand experience every day and will repeat what a lot of businesses large and small and recruitment companies are saying as well. I have no issues with protecting skilled jobs for UK nationals which in an earlier response to me I sympathised with what Ian said as a skilled coach builder and welder. It is the non skilled market we need the mIgrant workforce desperately for as I have as already said i have experienced first hand the total lack of uptake or interest by UK nationals looking for work in the hospitality, cleaning and other low skilled job vacancies. In Cardiff this week I had 51 applications everyone of which was formerly invited to an interview for the vacant positions on offer. 17 formerly agreed and accepted in writing to attend their appointments. Out of all of these 3 people showed up with only 3 out of the remaining 14 having the decency to advise us of their non attendance. Of the 3 that attended 1 was a Spanish lady, 1 was a Polish gentleman and the other a UK national (Welsh). 1 of the vacancies we offered to the UK national. When contacted the next day to arrange induction he told us that 6am was too early for him start work. 6.30 START WAS AT THE TOP OF THE ADVERT WHEN HE APPLIED FOR THE VACANCY. In total contrast the Polish gentleman and Spanish lady both turned up on time for their interviews looking smart, keen and interested demonstrating positively that they wanted to work. So you can guess the outcome as to who is now employed. The same week we interviewed in Lewis Sussex. These are low skilled jobs but we pride ourselves on paying good markets rates ie; £8.50 to £8.75 per hour Mon to Fri, £10.25 per hour Sat and £11.50 per hour Sun. Of the 7 that agreed in writing and verbally to attend their interview appointments 1 turned up and he was 10 minutes early for his interview. He was a Polish gentleman. When I called the people who failed to attend or give any notice of their intention not to attend only 1 would answer her phone. The response I got from this applicant was she had forgot about her interview even though we confirmed wit her the day before. 
As an employer with now over 132 staff around the country I can tell you from the aforesaid actual examples that while I support skilled jobs being given as a priority to UK nationals this government scares me with their immigration proposals after Brexit because as I saw in the national press and on the BBC news website this week serious concerns from farmers and the hospitality industries asking the givernment the question who is going to do all the lower skilled work that the UK nationals obviously don't want to do even when it's being offered to them on a plate. This government wants to impose penalties on any businesses presenting their case for the need for lower skilled migrant labour. Everyone can ignore this problem until literally and I really mean literally the excrement hits the fan because there will be no one cleaning it up after 2019. This id going to have a huge negative impact on all businesses in the service sector it will by association pull other businesses down under creating further unemployment by association (knock on affect), there will be less tax contributions, increases on social benefit demands.
I think that TM had a silver teaspoon stuck up her bottom when she said "looking after those left behind" because for a lot of people excepting of course the gluttonous politicians, they will be left so far behind after 2019 they'll be completely forgotten. Roll on 2020 general election because by that time people will have woken up and smelled the coffee from the disaster caused by these political imbeciles. DDT or David Davies grinning like a Cheshire Cat all the time because he can't believe the job that's fallen into his lap and he wants this to go on as long as he can stretch it out, but as reported in the Guardian he was claiming £34k for 6 days work a year as a consultant to a mate's London business and even tried to support his mate's appeal when he was fined £250,000 and charged with insider dealing. What was that about helping those left behind again? Nothing to do with having their snouts in the political trough is it to bead out want they can out of it for themselves? She will walk away with a £40k per annum probably more by 2020 - PM pension after messing it up.

What a lot of ignorant nonsense you are writing! Despite being trilingual and having loved living and working in France in the '60s when I needed a carte de travail and a carte de sejour, and again in the late '80s and
'90s, I was always totally opposed to our membership of a combined Europe in which we lost our sovereignity and were ruled by foreigners in Brussels. We MUST rule our own country; we need to repatriate many citizens from continental Europe who are an utter social menace here and stop free movement. The continental member states of the E.U. have lost their national character and dignity through that organisation. Sadly, our country also suffers from the ridiculous notion that we have a special relationship with the U.S.A. There is wider and wider use of the vulgar, structureless, meaningless foreign language, American, in this country instead of logical, expressive, beautiful Latin-based English. I am good means I am well behaved. Sinks are for washing up in the kitchen. Wash basins are for washing humans in cloakrooms and bathrooms. The floor is indoors or in a temporary structure such as a marquee. The ground is out of doors. Let us eliminate all the foul influences from the E.U. and the U.S.A. and renew our pride in our own language, culture and customs. We are physically destroying our beautiful country by building millions of homes for all these additional immigrants. Send them home and embrace our immigrants from countries to whom we are indebted: the West Indies, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and former African colonies of the tyrannical British Empire. The writer of that cretinous article should look at the bullying of member states who will not take in immigrants by the E.U. government. I voted Brexit because I love my country and witness its destruction by the E.U. and the U.S.A. daily. Long live Brexit!

Who would have believed it. We have our own version of Donald Trump! Ignorance and fake news any more cobblers you want to spew out. By the way this may comes as a shock but we are no longer living in Victorian times!

Linda Katz

For someone who claims to speak 3 languages and who has lived and worked abroad, you show a remarkable lack of perspicuity as to the aims and achievements of the EU. American English is developing on a different pathway to British English and why should it not? Are you trying to claim somehow that British English is "more correct" and that American English is a "bastardised form§ of the language? Beautiful, Latin-based my ass! Foul influences my ass". "The writer of that cretinous article should look at the bullying of member states who will not take in immigrants" .. do you mean Britain by anxy chance. You disgust me